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Post by GeorgeX on Nov 18, 2022 9:33:43 GMT -6
I was listening to John Abercrombie - Timeless recently, and while I think it's ok, I never
understood the hype about it. I mean, the best song(to me anyway) sounds better on another
record.
What are some highly rated albums that you never agreed with all the praise on? And remember,
overrated doesn't mean sucks. It just means the amount of adulation lavished on something is
not comensurate with the reality you see. Shitty albums that no one raves about, aren't overrated.
Some more from me:
Head Hunters
Third
Emergency!
Most any of the revered Miles or Zappa stuff.
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Post by xmiles on Nov 18, 2022 10:55:58 GMT -6
Hmm this is going to be interesting. I like Third and obviously most but not all Miles. So here are a few that I can think of immediately:
Headhunters
In A Silent Way
Shawn Lane - Powers of Ten
Any non-Weather Report Zawinul
Dixie Dregs
I am sure I will think of more.
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Post by GeorgeX on Nov 18, 2022 13:11:39 GMT -6
Hmm this is going to be interesting. Yeah. I thought it could be fun. Maybe illuminating. If I took RYMs Top Fusion albums of all time list, I would have to add Sun Ra - Lanquidity and Sleeping Beauty, which they have 6th and 10th, all time. WTF? I've never heard a single fusion fan talk about those though, so I don't know what to make of that. |
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Post by xmiles on Nov 18, 2022 16:24:50 GMT -6
Hmm this is going to be interesting. Yeah. I thought it could be fun. Maybe illuminating. If I took RYMs Top Fusion albums of all time list, I would have to add Sun Ra - Lanquidity and Sleeping Beauty, which they have 6th and 10th, all time. WTF? I've never heard a single fusion fan talk about those though, so I don't know what to make of that. Sun Ra is fusion?! Not in my world. |
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Post by xmiles on Nov 18, 2022 16:32:59 GMT -6
Hmm this is going to be interesting. I like Third and obviously most but not all Miles. So here are a few that I can think of immediately: Headhunters In A Silent Way Shawn Lane - Powers of Ten Any non-Weather Report Zawinul Dixie Dregs I am sure I will think of more. I have thought of two more massively over-rated musicians: George Duke Jan Hammer |
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Post by GeorgeX on Nov 18, 2022 16:39:56 GMT -6
I could probably go with those. But I want to keep this to albums.
Musicians is a whole other matter.
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Post by xmiles on Nov 18, 2022 16:46:26 GMT -6
I could probably go with those. But I want to keep this to albums. Musicians is a whole other matter. OK, but it's hard to pick a specific Duke album and Jan Hammer only has one solo album (Oh Yeah?) and his work with Jeff Beck sucks.  |
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Post by GeorgeX on Nov 18, 2022 17:09:38 GMT -6
I could probably go with those. But I want to keep this to albums. Musicians is a whole other matter. OK, but it's hard to pick a specific Duke album and Jan Hammer only has one solo album (Oh Yeah?) and his work with Jeff Beck sucks. You mean Hammer only has one solo album that's fusion, right? Cuz he has like 10 albums |
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Post by GeorgeX on Dec 31, 2022 12:28:03 GMT -6
No one else thinks there is a single overrated fusion album I guess.
Hive minds.
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Post by funkle on Dec 31, 2022 14:17:01 GMT -6
No one else thinks there is a single overrated fusion album I guess. Hive minds. What ratings are you pulling from, critical or user? I think it's hard to even identify "overrated" in a genre that is so underrated. Most of the official ratings of fusion albums are from jazz critics. And unofficial popularity ratings are probably overweighted by raters who are not not into current fusion as their primary genre of choice. When I pull up "top rated fusion albums" on google I get the following list. The only ones I disagree with are the ones that I don't consider fusion: Chicago, Steely Dan, Zappa, Santana, Sun Ra, Traffic etc and the Canterbury stuff. Most of those are great albums, but I don't like that they are edging out real fusion records. And after that, the ratings are almost 100% 70s records. Of my top fusion records, only a couple are from the 70s. Unless I'm feeling nostalgic, there are plenty of records I'd choose to listen to over most of the 70s stuff. Really the only 70s ones I go to are Enigmatic Ocean & the pre-romantic warrior RTF with guitar. Aside from those, I'll take The Players, any solo Holdsworth, Tribal Tech, Machecek, Scofield, Watanabe, Fragile, PiR2 or Protocol album over those listed below. And for truly underrated stuff, I can think of Quartado, Ersan bros. Borlai, G.U.T. Benjamin Croft, Michael Pope, Crane & Fabian, His Maj Es, Fafard, Flying Machines, Beyond Turbines, Steve Hunt. So from my perspective, the whole lot is overrated  The Inner Mounting Flame Mahavishnu Orchestra, 1971 Birds of Fire Mahavishnu Orchestra, 1973 Spectrum Billy Cobham, 1973 Bitches Brew Miles Davis, 1970 In a Silent Way Miles Davis, 1969 Head Hunters Herbie Hancock, 1973 Romantic Warrior Return to Forever, 1976 The Grand Wazoo Frank Zappa, 1972 Elegant Gypsy Al Di Meola, 1977 Pat Metheny Group Pat Metheny Group, 1978 Light as a Feather Return to Forever, 1973 Where Have I Known You Before Return to Forever, 1974 Third Soft Machine, 1970 Unorthodox Behaviour Brand X, 1976 Emergency! The Tony Williams Lifetime, 1969 Love Devotion Surrender Carlos Santana, 1973 Sunburst Eddie Henderson, 1975 Introducing Eleventh House with Larry Coryell Larry Coryell, 1974 Heavy Weather Weather Report, 1977 Hot Rats Frank Zappa, 1969 On the Corner Miles Davis, 1972 A Tribute to Jack Johnson Miles Davis, 1971 Sextant Herbie Hancock, 1973 Lanquidity Sun Ra, 1978 School Days Stanley Clarke, 1976 Crosswinds Billy Cobham, 1974 Enigmatic Ocean Jean-Luc Ponty, 1977 Six Soft Machine, 1973 Forever Stanley Clarke, 2011 My Goal's Beyond John McLaughlin, 1971 Volume Two Soft Machine, 1969 Captain Marvel Stan Getz, 1974 Like Children Jan Hammer, 1974 Believe It The Tony Williams Lifetime, 1975 Aja Steely Dan, 1977 Electric Guitarist John McLaughlin, 1978 8:30 Weather Report, 1979 I Sing the Body Electric Weather Report, 1972 King Kong: Jean-Luc Ponty Plays the Music of Frank Zappa Jean-Luc Ponty, 1970 The Chicago Transit Authority Chicago, 1969 Seven Soft Machine, 1973 The Low Spark of High Heeled Boys Traffic, 1971 Stories to Tell Flora Purim, 1974 Lotus Santana, 1974 Electric Bath The Don Ellis Orchestra, 1967 Return to Forever Return to Forever, 1972 Jaco Pastorius Jaco Pastorius, 1976 Crossings Herbie Hancock, 1971 Get Up with It Miles Davis, 1974 The Rotters' Club Hatfield and the North, 1975 Secrets Allan Holdsworth, 1989 |
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Post by conebeckham on Dec 31, 2022 15:18:36 GMT -6
I think some of the so-called "Kozmigroov" artists, or jazz artists who veered in that direction at some point, get lumped into the bigger "fusion" bucket. But most of us, I think, define fusion more narrowly.
Headhunters is a sort of Kozmigroov prototype. Classic album, IMO, and I love it but it's overplayed.
The Sun Ra stuff that gets mentioned falls squarely in the Kozmigroov camp. Much of the Cobham and Duke stuff too, though I enjoy quite a bit of that stuff.
Canterbury, for the most part, is not fusion--that includes Soft Machine and Hatfield, National Health, Gilgamesh, etc. I love all that stuff, though 3 suffers much from really crap sound and recording. Chicago and Brass Rock are another sort of "bucket"--along with The Flock, BS & T, and the Zappa Wacka/Wazoo period, to some degree. Big Band never worked as fusion, to my ears, and that includes Don Ellis.
There was some cross-pollination and bleed happening, esp. in the 70's, and I think that was essential and made the music vital.
For me, I will get crucified perhaps, but much of the Dregs output is a bit over-rated. I lean more toward the improv end of "Fusion," in general, and toward maybe a more "jazz" influenced sort of thing, and the Dregs are certainly a fusion of styles, with Southern Rock and a sort of "classical" maybe baroque music influence. I like the Dregs, don't get me wrong..
Tony Williams first Lifetime albums, besides being poorly recorded, suffer from some bad singing. I find the Holdsworth version of the band much more exciting.
And I am a huge WR fan, they have been my fave band since I heard them in High School...but This is This was a failure, mostly, IMO, and the Zawinul stuff, much of it, is too "composed" in comparison to WR. But some of the last Zawinul Syndicate albums are really hot--when he had a band of killer musicians his projects sounded great to me.
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