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Post by GeorgeX on May 17, 2021 11:54:07 GMT -6
I just got the word I''l be on a Cobham ranking show next month. I certainly haven't heard them all, so maybe one of you will have one highly touted that I should hear.
As always with any sensible rankings, NO LIVE ALBUMS. Unless it's all new material and not just a glorified greatest hits, that is.
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Post by xmiles on May 17, 2021 14:52:41 GMT -6
I don't know how anybody could choose anything except Spectrum as their number one Cobham album.
For the other four I would pick:
2. Crosswinds 3. Paradox 4. Total Eclipse 5. Life & Times
Pity about the ban on live releases. It means you miss Live On Tour In Europe, Alivemutherforya, Smokin', Flight Time and Spectrum 40 Live.
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Post by funkle on May 17, 2021 18:28:30 GMT -6
As always with any sensible rankings, NO LIVE ALBUMS. That pretty much eliminates my favorites. Could we include Jazz is Dead?
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Post by GeorgeX on May 17, 2021 18:53:56 GMT -6
As always with any sensible rankings, NO LIVE ALBUMS. That pretty much eliminates my favorites. Could we include Jazz is Dead? No. Solo albums. Jazz is Dead was a band. So was Paradox for that matter.
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Post by GeorgeX on May 18, 2021 7:51:22 GMT -6
Pity about the ban on live releases. It means you miss Live On Tour In Europe, Alivemutherforya, Smokin', Flight Time and Spectrum 40 Live. No big deal for me. I don't own a single one of those. I think the only one I ever heard even, is Flight Time
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Post by xmiles on May 18, 2021 7:53:40 GMT -6
Pity about the ban on live releases. It means you miss Live On Tour In Europe, Alivemutherforya, Smokin', Flight Time and Spectrum 40 Live. No big deal for me. I don't own a single one of those. I think the only one I ever heard even, is Flight Time Is that because you are not a big fan of BC or because you are not a fan of live recordings?
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Post by GeorgeX on May 18, 2021 8:49:36 GMT -6
Live recordings. I had a very hard time being on the live albums show for the channel as I hold very few in high regard. They tend to be rehashes of songs I already have, with lesser production. And the label suits usually screw up anything really good, shortening shows, picking the overplayed songs, sanitizing the performance etc. To the extent I listen to live stuff, it's usually boots, where I can avoid those pitfalls.
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Post by funkle on May 18, 2021 14:50:27 GMT -6
Sorry, this doesn't address the request: One of the things I like about Cobham's live shows is how he re-arranges the songs. There have been a bunch of variations to the head of Stratus, some I prefer to the original. And his intros to that tune are always exciting. Live at Jazzfestival Leverkusen is one of my favorites. It's one of his his EU band line-ups with Jean-Marie Ecay on guitar (I believe) - under-rated IMO
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Post by GeorgeX on May 18, 2021 15:43:25 GMT -6
Yeah, I got that one based on it being ranked on one of your lists. I like it.
I prefer to not even hear Stratus at this point though. Easily in my top 3 or 4 most overheard fusion tunes
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Post by conebeckham on May 19, 2021 12:12:50 GMT -6
I dunno, for me some live albums are preferable to studio work---given that fusion is improvisatory, I like the hear that sense of immediacy and danger that is clear on some albums. But --if it's jsut a re-hashing of Greatest Hits, I agree, it shouldn't be counted.
Alivemutherforya strikes me as NOT a re-hash. I love that album. Agree that Spectrum has to be in the top five, regardless of how often we've heard it.
I quite like the Glass Menagerie Observations &, and would put Total Eclipse and Shabazz in the top five.
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Post by funkle on May 19, 2021 12:51:00 GMT -6
I dunno, for me some live albums are preferable to studio work---given that fusion is improvisatory, I like the hear that sense of immediacy and danger that is clear on some albums. But --if it's jsut a re-hashing of Greatest Hits, I agree, it shouldn't be counted. Alivemutherforya strikes me as NOT a re-hash. I love that album. Agree that Spectrum has to be in the top five, regardless of how often we've heard it. I quite like the Glass Menagerie Observations &, and would put Total Eclipse and Shabazz in the top five. Agreed. Aside from the energy factor, (I got this mostly from Henderson): The album material can greatly benefit from touring it, because they get to perfect & evolve it through repetition, trial & error, reaction. So unless they haven't toured the material first, the album songs may not be as fully baked as they could be. So the live material may be the best incarnation. I know a lot of artists have wished they could re-record the studio album after extensive touring.
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Post by GeorgeX on May 19, 2021 13:50:26 GMT -6
if it's jsut a re-hashing of Greatest Hits, I agree, it shouldn't be counted. What? You mean it's not equitable to compare the album where we have cherry picked the best material over a period of years and years against the one that was just written? Seriously, I don't know why people don't recognize that, and yet, I see it in a lot of settings. No different to me than having a Greatest Hits album in a rankings scenario. So, Shabazz is out, for my purposes here
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Post by conebeckham on May 19, 2021 17:01:49 GMT -6
I really think it depends....for example, most of my fave Holdsworth albums are the live ones. There's no comparison. I know he would have had issues with that statement, being the irrational perfectionist he was, and I do love the studio stuff--but the live stuff is just burning, in comparison.
You know it used to be the case that Jazz was always recording live, as a group, in studio. Artists would pick the best cuts, if they were lucky, or the RVG's of the world would choose what went on the album. Some fusion is still made this way. Some of it is assembled in the studio, like most rock and pretty much all Pop music these days.
But I digress and have taken this thread on an unintended tangent.
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Post by GeorgeX on May 19, 2021 17:02:12 GMT -6
I quite like the Glass Menagerie Observations & This was a good recommend! Just checked out a vinyl rip,(never a cd issue, according to RYM) and I like it.
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Post by xmiles on May 20, 2021 2:29:55 GMT -6
Yes I completely forgot this one!
So my revised top 5 would be:
1. Spectrum 2. Crosswinds 3. Observations & 4. Total Eclipse 5. Life & Times
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